As humans, progress matters to us. It's part of our psyche and crucial for our psychological well-being. When we feel like we're progressing, we feel like we’re winning. Brands who align with this are more appealing to us. Particularly when we feel they can help us with our own quest to feel like we’re moving forward in life.

 But signalling progress isn’t as simple as you might think. It's not just talking about growth – it’s a lot more interesting and complex than that. Our recent research identified how brands can turn up more authentically in this space.  

To unpack the findings, Andrew is joined by Colleen Ryan, Partner at TRA and Bailey Hancox, Qualitative Lead, who were both involved in conducting the research.

Explore more and download the full report at: theresearchagency.com/progress

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Andrew: As humans, progress matters to us. It’s part of our psyche and crucial for our psychological wellbeing. When we feel like we’re progressing, we feel like we’re winning. We feel more in control of our lives. And this same desire for progress also influences how we think about and perceive brands. Brands that have momentum appeal to us because we assume they must be doing something right, and we want to align with that. Especially when we feel they can help us with our own quest to move forward in life.

But how a company goes about signalling progress isn’t as simple as you might think. It’s not just about talking profits or growth. It’s a lot more interesting and more complex than that.

Hello and welcome to FRAME, a podcast dedicated to the art of knowing people. I’m your host, Andrew Lewis, Managing Director at TRA, The Research Agency. Over a series of three episodes, we’re exploring the themes of progress and success with thought leaders from different human science disciplines. By layering their unique perspectives, we’re going to search for the truths others don’t – the uncommon truths.

In this first episode, we’ll be looking at the findings from our most recent study, exploring perceptions of progress and success in 2025, and unpacking them with the very people who led the research. I’m joined today by industry thought leader Colleen Ryan, Partner at TRA, and Bailey Hancocks, Qualitative Lead at TRA. Hello to you both, and thanks for coming along today.

Colleen: Hi Andrew, good to be here.

Bailey: Hey Andrew, nice to be here too.

Andrew: Right, should we start with the basics, Colleen? Why are we focusing on the topic of success and progress right now? Why this study?

Colleen: Well, it’s not new news that it’s been a pretty rough few years for people. Over that period, we’ve been checking in twice a year on the mood of the nation – looking at things like levels of uncertainty, trust, and whether fairness has changed in people’s lives. So now we just thought, let’s see how people are doing – how they feel they’re progressing, and how they’re progressing in the context of everything going on around them. Because we suspected it might be harder than ever but also more important than ever.

Andrew: Absolutely. There’s certainly a lot of change happening for people right now, on many levels, from global geopolitics to the everyday impact of the cost of living. It’s easy to imagine this is dramatically affecting how much progress people feel they’re making. Or even more fundamentally, challenging what we think progress and success even look like, or how important they are. I’m excited. Let’s dive into some of the findings, shall we?

Andrew: Bailey, what did you learn about how people define progress and success? Was it different to what you expected?

Bailey: Yeah. When you think about everything that’s been happening, especially around things like the cost of living, we were curious whether ideas of success and progress had changed. But actually, what we found was that people’s ideas of success haven’t shifted all that much. When they think about success, they still mention fairly traditional markers – things like the house, the car, the career, the kids, the holidays. That’s still success. But progress is different. People aren’t measuring progress by those traditional markers. Instead, they’re using things that are more within their control.

Progress is really about those smaller, everyday moments that build up over time.

Bailey: It could be things like getting a good night’s sleep, paying your bills, going to the gym. For some, it might even be as simple as making your bed in the morning. The little things that add up and, over time, shape an overall sense of success. And what’s also interesting is how personal and private people’s approach to progress is. We asked them how they like to celebrate or even acknowledge their progress, and most said they keep it to themselves or share it only with a close circle of family or friends. So, in other words, they’d rather tell their mum than their Instagram followers. We found that really surprising. We thought social media would be much higher up the list for sharing progress, but it wasn’t.

Andrew: I love that tell your mum! That’s great. There’s a lot of interesting stuff in there. So we’re saying that the big markers of success still matter – house, car, kids, boat, bach, Beamer, those kinds of ideas but they’re hard to reach on a day-to-day basis. Especially right now, when so many of those things feel out of reach. So we use the small moments – the small wins – to give us that sense of moving forward.

That makes sense. I love the idea that people are using those smaller progressions and stitching them together to build a personal story of growth. Like, that becomes the narrative that sustains us day to day. And I guess, when we look back, that narrative becomes a big part of how we think about our success, the little bits that came together. And yes, it’s very personal, isn’t it? It makes sense that it’s your inner circle, or your mum, that you want to share it with – depending on who you are.

Andrew: Colleen, what about you? Were there any unexpected insights into how people define progress more broadly?

Colleen: Yes, one thing that stood out and in hindsight, it shouldn’t have been that surprising – is that perceptions of progress at an individual, private level, and how people see their country progressing, are quite different. I say it’s not surprising because part of the human condition is that we strive to make progress. When things go wrong, when the environment changes, we don’t just curl up – we adapt and keep moving forward. It’s part of how we’ve evolved as a species.

We all have this internal narrative: “I’m someone who grows, learns, moves forward.” It’s fundamental to being human. Even if things are tough, like Bailey said even if all you’ve done is made the bed, you’re still building that sense of progress.

In the data, we saw that around four in ten people said they’ve made progress in their lives over the past two years. Most of the rest said they’ve stood still – very few felt they’d gone backwards. If you look at young people in particular – under-35s – 60% felt they had made progress, and they’re confident they’ll make more in the next two years. That’s optimism, or maybe just determination: “I will make my bed.”

But on the national level, it’s a very different picture. And this was consistent across both Australia and New Zealand – which is notable because in our “mood of the nation” studies, we often see big differences between the two. But on this, they were almost identical.

Only about 20% of people felt their country had made progress in the last two years – just one in five. Around 40% felt the country had gone backwards. And fewer than 30% think their country will make progress in the next year.

It’s an interesting contrast. On a personal level, people feel they can make progress. But they don’t have much faith that the country is moving forward.

Andrew: So it’s like people are saying, “Well, I can’t control the big stuff but I can control what I do next.” And that little narrative of progress becomes even more important.

Colleen: Absolutely right. And you can't do away with those little dopamine wins that you get when you do make progress.  

Andrew: Okay, just reflecting on that, that's a huge gap really, isn't it, between individuals and the sense of the nation in both Australia and New Zealand. Very few people think we're really progressing at a national level in either country. And a sizeable chunk actually are expecting us to go backwards in the coming years. But at the same time, we as individuals expect quite strongly that we're going to make progress, despite this drag factor of national sluggishness. It's fascinating really, in that context of your point about us as humans, that part of our wiring is that we really need to feel like we're making progress, come what may. Because it kind of suggests in the data that, because we're expecting the country to be going nowhere, we're almost leaning harder into those individual stories like really needing to shape that narrative of something happening. Something that we can control. It feels like there's this real need to take control of that narrative and a real need to drive this life story, which is interesting.

Andrew: Which I guess raises an interesting question, given the nature of this podcast. What we're talking about is: what does that mean for the role of brands, then? Like, if there's this gap between this individual and national level feeling, and we’re leaning into these individual narratives, what does that mean for the brands and their role in progress?

Colleen: Well, it's good news, actually. And very often when you ask people about brands, they tell you to butt out. It was quite the opposite here. People are going, “Yeah, there's a role for brands.” Brands are part of society. They are part of that broader picture. And there's so many signals out there. They see brands advertising – that’s showing, presumably, that they're successful. They're seeing brands showing signs of making progress. And that's a bandwagon that you can jump onto and feel good about. But there's also the things that brands obviously can do for people to help them make progress. And it's sort of irrespective of category, because some categories naturally help people make progress because that’s what they do and other categories less so. But any brand can put a lens across progress and look at how it can help people.

It's big things like brands contributing to the economy, they employ people, they do stuff in the local community, they support good causes – environmental things. People know as individuals it’s pretty hard to do much about the environment, but brands – big companies – can help in that space. But it's also about developing products and services that can help people specifically make progress in their lives. There are really tangible ways that brands can help people. And obviously, to do that, they've got to be brands that you trust and can rely upon. So there's also a bigger story there about removing the barriers to progress by reducing cognitive load, by knowing that you can trust what a brand says to you. It's not just about the stuff they sell you – it's also how they turn up. Bailey can tell you much more about that, having talked to people at length on this.

Bailey: Yeah, sure. Honesty was a really big theme that came through in the research, and something that we did spend a bit of time digging deeper into.

I think the main thing to note here is this idea of authenticity is key. People don't want posturing, and they don't want perfection.

Bailey: They can really easily identify when a brand's actions don't actually line up with their stated values or their claims. And they're just really sceptical of brands that engage in tokenism or brands that prioritise publicity over genuine efforts. So we had some specific examples coming through here, and some of the big ones were Twitter/X and Amazon. People felt like they falsely claim to support things like free speech and good working conditions for their employees, but they don't feel like they actually do much to make good on those claims. So a lot of scepticism there. So that's authenticity but that needs to be backed up by action.

So this is sort of what Colleen was speaking to. People really do value companies that genuinely help and provide that tangible support. Whether that's leveraging technology to help people, easing financial burdens, supporting personal growth, or prioritising ethical practices. So it's really all about that tangible stuff that helps people progress in their lives.

Bailey: We also asked people about markers for success for brands themselves. And we heard a lot about involvement in community and social causes, keeping your staff happy, keeping your people and your customers happy, and general growth and momentum as an organisation as well. Now, the growth piece is interesting, because yes, it's about being in a strong financial position as an organisation, but people believe that true success involves balancing profitability with real contributions to society. Essentially, they believe that brands should use their good fortune as a force for good out there.

Andrew: Okay, now that's all super interesting. There was a lot there. I'm just going to try and come back in and touch on a few of those ideas. Brands have this really kind of interesting and what sounds like kind of big role, to play in our personal growth stories. And on one level, it's simply because they put out a lot of signals that they themselves are moving forward, right? There's this sense of energy and momentum that comes from them. And we want a bit of that for ourselves and our story. Kind of by associating and aligning with particular brands, we can kind of bring a bit of their success and energy into our own personal stories of progress.

And then there's also the much more tangible ways that they can do it in the big and small demonstrations that they’re kind of helping life get better. What you're really saying is that’s a great role. And I imagine a lot of brands want to play that. To play that and to be effective in it – there’s this core criteria that needs to be established to allow that to happen. And that's the sense of authenticity. We need to sense integrity. We need to trust.

Which makes sense, I guess. If you want to align something with your personal journey of progress and growth, you want to feel like it's the genuine article that you're aligning with. There's an interesting idea in that. I wonder how many brand owners have ever considered this role of momentum providers – kind of progress agents that kind of help you on the journey. Because it feels like a really powerful and important role you can play in people's lives over time. But it does come down to this idea of authenticity and trust. If you can establish that, you can play this role. If that's not there, you can't.

Andrew: What’s driving this focus, then? This is so important above everything else. Even the things you do at a mid and economic or local community support level, what’s behind that?

Bailey: Yeah. I think people are just really discerning these days. They know what greenwashing looks like. They know what false claims sound like. And quite simply, I think people are just over it by now. They’re really quick to tell us examples of when a company says one thing but does another. Those are top of mind for people. And they’re also really united in what brands should stop doing when it comes to talking about progress and success. So that’s things like over-emphasising financial succes – specifically if you're focusing too much on the profits that you might be making. For people, this just comes across as arrogant and a little bit disconnected from the everyday experiences that they're having on the ground. Overstating success or painting an overly rosy picture was another thing for people. Again, they don’t want perfection here.

They actually just want real, authentic reflection of what’s happening, including the challenges and realities that an organisation might be facing.

Bailey: And lastly, people want companies to look after their employees. And they want them to demonstrate that they do prioritise or they do care about people as well as profits. And it’s this idea that it all starts from within in a company. You’ve got to look after your people. And if you’re neglecting employee happiness at the expense of being profitable and successful, people see that as really wrong.

Colleen: It’s interesting. We’re seeing that in a lot of studies. It’s come through very strongly in this piece. But I’ve seen it come through a lot recently – that people are looking at brands and organisations in a more holistic way. You can’t just launch the new brand or the new advertising if they’re reading stuff in the press about you having closed a factory, or you’re not paying minimum wage or living wage or whatever those issues are. Or you are launching an environmental campaign, but you haven’t put your own house in order. There is a much greater sense, I think, of looking at the whole story rather than just the brand side of it, and seeing the company as a separate thing.

Andrew: Like a build on that marketing idea from a few years back of, brands start from within and it's the employee brand that drives the external?

Colleen: It’s the whole deal. And it’s the same as with progress, isn’t it? It is making the bed, but it’s also saving for the big holiday. Like it is a whole mixture of things that make up, you know, the whole sense of making progress.

Bailey: The micro and the macro, isn’t it? Yeah.

Colleen: And I suppose you're not allowed – I think professionally you now get fined – if you don't mention AI in something. It came up here, and what’s really interesting is the excitement that so many of us have about AI. If you just talk to people generally, they see AI as interesting and exciting. But when you ask them, “How might companies be using AI to help you make progress?” Woo – the jury is out on that one. In fact, the only thing that the majority of people agree with and 90% of people agreed with the statement – is that companies will use AI to improve their own profits, but it won’t have a benefit for customers. So the narrative is lost there. And on pretty much everything else – like whether AI will help develop better products or better customer experience or help engage with the company – you get roughly a third of people agreeing, a third disagreeing, and a third sitting in the middle going, “Waiting to see.” Like the jury's really out on how AI will actually help customers progress. They can see how it will help companies. But you know, so that’s a narrative really that companies need to get a hold on.

Andrew: It’s not been a big part of the story so far, really.

Colleen: No. I'm not suggesting companies go out and tell them what they’re doing with AI, but be able to demonstrate how much better they can serve you is really what people are unsure about at the moment. I think it’s something we say in the report – that CMOs need to own the narrative about their brand, and in terms of how are we working to help you make progress. It’s the same with AI. If you don’t own the narrative, then people will assume you’re just using it for your own devices.

Andrew: Well, that’s interesting. So building on that idea, then, we’re saying authenticity is the critical criteria that allows a brand to play this role in helping us on our quest to build a narrative of progress. And the reason why it’s so important is because we’ve kind of seen too much now. We’re very jaded. We need to see some really, really genuine, authentic behaviour so that we can establish this level of trust. Trust is not quite as easy, perhaps, to get as before – which makes sense with what you’re saying, then, about how we judge whether someone is worthy of our trust, how authentic they are by looking at all aspects of their behaviour. It’s not the big token hero fundraising thing you do or the ad that you put on TV claiming your percentage of the product’s recycled or whatever. It’s this kaleidoscope of different bits and pieces of the way we act.

Which is interesting, because if you are a brand owner, then it becomes this job to be done. If you want to be a partner on this journey of progress and be a signaller of it, how do you stitch all that together? Because we’re behaving and doing all these different things that form together to create this idea of whether we are trustworthy, whether we are authentic in what we’re doing. How do we make sure that there’s some kind of narrative that sits over that and stitches it together rather than letting things just happen?

Colleen: Yeah, and if there’s incongruence in that – if on the one hand and on the other hand you’re eroding that trust, so even the good stuff you’re doing doesn’t get so well received. And it doesn’t suggest that the company overall is looking at how they can contribute to the progress of people in general, and you individually.

Andrew: Fascinating. Okay, well, let’s wrap up a couple of the key points then from this discussion. It’s been really, really interesting. Thank you both.

Going right back to the start of all of this, we’re saying progress is core to our humanity. We’re effectively wired to seek it. Even if we feel like things aren’t going well at a big-picture level, we need to feel we’re sustained by some kind of narrative of our own progress at a micro level. And as that gap opens up between the two, then we’re going to really lean into that micro narrative to do that. And that really captures what progress is for most people, most of the time. It’s little wins on a personal, daily basis – little triumphs, the kind you share with your mum, not the internet. And brands have an opportunity to play a big role in this personal narrative of progress. Because they actively signal momentum and they give off energy, we want to align with this to sustain our own sense of progress. But that can only happen when we can demonstrate an authenticity in our behaviour and actions – that we are genuinely aligned with the idea of your progress, that we demonstrate tangibly in the things we do, big and small, and we have a narrative that stitches this up as we go.

It’s a great foundation, and I look forward to unpacking this further over the next couple of episodes. Speaking of which, in the next episode we’ll be exploring insights through the lenses of culture and innovation, so stay tuned for that. Once again, thank you, Colleen. Thank you, Bailey. A really fascinating discussion and a really fascinating study.

Colleen: Thank you.

Andrew: Thanks for listening to , a podcast by TRA, dedicated to the art of knowing people. TRA is an insights agency. By layering perspectives from the science of human understanding, we see things that others don’t. The uncommon truths. To download our full report on progress, visittheresearchagency.com/progress.

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