Progress: Turning theory into practise

As humans, we're hard-wired to seek out a sense of progress. As we move through life, we all look to build our own story of headway and achievement to sustain us.  And, increasingly, we build these narratives of progress through the little daily or weekly wins we experience. The sense of improvement we feel when making our bed, cooking a meal, or extending our Duolingo streak. Things that give us a sense of control over our lives.  

In this space, there's an increasing role for brands and organisations to play – as allies in our quest for progress and success, and as symbols of how well we are travelling. But as we all know, this space where we turn theory into practice is the easiest bit to get it all wrong… So, what can we do to make sure we get it right?  

In this episode, Andrew is joined by Daniel Van Vorsselen, CX Lead at TRA, and Lindsey Horne, Behavioural Insights Director at TRA.

‍Andrew: Feeling a sense of progress in life is critical to us humans. We're hardwired to seek it out. And as we move through life, we all look to build our own personal story of headway and achievement to sustain us. And more and more, we're building these narratives of progress through the little wins we experience. The sense of achievement we feel when we complete a task, make our bed, cook a meal or extend our Duolingo streak – the things that give us a sense of control over our lives.

In this space, there is an increasing role for brands and organisations to play. As allies in our quest for progress and success, and as symbols of how well we are travelling. It's a powerful space, as we've been discussing over the past few episodes of this podcast – but only for those who can really show up in the right way and create real value and meaning for people. And as we all know, this space where we try to put ideas into practice is the easiest bit to get wrong. So, what can we do to make sure we get it right?

Hello and welcome to FRAME, a podcast dedicated to the art of knowing people. I'm your host, Andrew Lewis, Managing Director at TRA, The Research Agency.

Over a series of three episodes, we're exploring key insights from our latest research on the ideas of success and progress in 2025 with thought leaders from different human science disciplines; by layering their unique perspectives on the topic, we're going to search for the truths others don't – the uncommon truths.

In today's episode, the last of the series, we're going to look in more detail at how brands can go about applying the findings of the study to help people feel like they're making progress, by looking through the lenses of behavioural science and experience design. So, I'm joined today by Dan van Vorsselen, CX Lead at TRA, and Lindsey Horne, Behavioural Insights Director at TRA.

Hello to you both, and thanks for coming along today.

Lindsey: Thanks, Andrew.

Dan: Hey, Andrew.

Andrew: Lindsey, in previous episodes and indeed in the report itself, we talk a bit about why progress matters, its importance to our psychological wellbeing, how it helps us feel in control. So, from a behavioural science perspective, what more can you tell us about this connection between progress and humanness?

Lindsey: Yeah, it's a great connection between how we feel and those senses of accomplishment. And people get these little dopamine hits whenever they get a sense of micro progress. And you know, that really helps us create a sense of reward. And when we get that sensation, and we get that, you know, dopamine hit and we feel good about ourselves, it creates that positive feedback loop – and that's really important when we want repeat, ongoing behaviour change. It keeps us kind of coming back for more, which is really helpful.

And, you know, a lot of the time we're trying to solve people's problems or help people change their behaviour for good. And so, we can really draw on some of these behavioural principles to help them grow those positive feedback loops and feel positive emotions about their sense of progress.

So, a couple of behavioural principles that really connect into this. The first is actually the idea that success is really valued when it's felt like it's been earned or deserved. So, people really value their success when they've seen the effort, the time, the resources, the work that they've put into it. And we've actually studied this quite a lot in depth with our work with Kiwi codes and our cultural understanding – and that success isn't always valued unless it's felt like it's been earned by people.

And in behavioural science, this is sometimes known as the IKEA effect or the endowment effect, and it's named after people really almost overvaluing the furniture that they've spent, you know, a whole Sunday putting together with, like, blood, sweat and tears. Even if it's a little bit – yeah, even if it's, like, a little bit wonky – we still think it's the bee's knees and that it's, like, the best table ever.

And that's because we've put time and energy and effort into that. It's really thinking about – we value what we've put our resources into and what we've spent time and energy. And, you know, a really good example of organisations that are doing that are, you know, Spotify with their annual review – they show you just how much time you've been spending listening to music. Or Strava is, like, a classic example. Or walking streaks. So showing the effort and energy and how much time people have put into something helps us feel not just success, but success that has been earned and valued.

I guess a second behavioural principle to this is the idea of positive feedback – and that we just love seeing runs on the board or seeing streaks of behaviour, and that helps us track and visualise the time, effort and savings we've been putting into something. And, you know, organisations can really help us track and measure that.

And so, from a behavioural perspective, that positive reinforcement, as we mentioned at the start, plays a really key role in habit formation. And a lot of us are trying to get people to do something not just once, but multiple times – so that positive feedback helps lock it in and keeps people coming back for more and more and repeating that behaviour.

Andrew: Yeah, fascinating. I guess – so going back to the start of that – part of what makes these micro moments, I guess, so sustaining for us as markers of success or progress is that they give us a sense of accomplishment, even when they're small. So, you get that dopamine hit – and who doesn't like a dopamine hit? We all need the dopamine hits.

And if we're a brand looking to help people actually act so that they get these hits, and we get the rub-off association, I suppose, there are a couple of big ideas – and those are: find a way to make people feel like they've earned their success. Like, in everything you do, they'll value it more.

Lindsey: Yeah, show the time and energy and effort that they've put in.

Andrew: And building on that – find a way to provide feedback. So again, like you say, it's actually habit formation, isn't it? You know, adopting new behaviours – and reinforcement really helps with repetition.

Lindsey: Yeah, 100%.

Andrew: Okay, these are really good foundation principles for brands, you know, to be thinking about if they're wanting to be acting in a way that helps people make progress. Dan, how can brands integrate these ideas into their experiences?

Dan: I think at the heart of every great customer experience is more than just functionality. It's feeling. It's emotions. The moments that stick aren't necessarily the ones where everything worked perfectly – but the ones where people feel seen, supported, or they feel like they've achieved something – their success.

And I think creating a standout experience doesn't always require new products or large amounts of investments. It just means being a little bit more targeted and intentional. So, this research very much shows that, you know, creating a small moment of progress in the lives of our customers – or even just integrating that feeling of success – might be all that's really needed to build that positive emotion around an experience.

You know, a powerful starting point is just reducing stress through simplicity, honesty and transparency. When customers expect a journey to be easy, they know what to expect, and they feel like a brand is being upfront and transparent – the entire journey often goes faster, safer and less emotionally taxing.

It's not about eliminating or removing every challenge, but providing customers with the tools and support they need to feel more in control. That'll help people feel like they're progressing through the journey with ease.

Another way to look at the journey – and Lindsey kind of mentioned this – was to celebrate those kind of micro progress, or those micro successes. Progress is very personal, so giving customers the experiences that reinforce those day-to-day wins can often feel like they've been acknowledged for stuff that is often unseen. You know, whether it's completing that small step, you know, staying consistent, hitting a goal – helping a customer see that they've achieved something is often quite powerful.

And it doesn't have to be about fireworks. It's often the more kind of powerful, respectful, quiet affirmations that can be particularly impactful. You know, effective progress cues are often humble – it's more of a nod than a huge parade. And I think a good example is, you know, Headspace, which ends meditation sessions with this kind of soft affirmation – this, you know, "Good job for making an effort". Those streak counts that Lindsey's mentioned, and things like total minutes meditated – it's kind of a quiet encouragement as opposed to a scoreboard.

I would just say one key watch-out is signalling progress can backfire really quickly. You know, when we're signalling progress, it needs to be quiet, consistent and very much rooted in empathy. And I think it's about a customer feeling like they've owned their own effort, as opposed to it feeling like it's been overhyped or an organisation is taking credit for it.

We will probably all have an experience in our lives where some fitness app has been celebrating every success – meal, or it feels like every breath you take and celebrating it to some extent. When everything feels like a huge milestone, it often becomes noise. It kind of loses that shine. Instead of being motivational, it can often feel very hollow – or in many cases, with fitness apps, almost guilt-inducing for many people.

So, I think the big lesson here is don't shout about progress. Reflect it. Reinforce it. Let it belong to the customer. Acknowledge the effort without taking over the moment.

Andrew: It's a great point and a lot of great points in that. You know, if we want experience to help create a sense of progress and achievement, it sounds like there's a few basics we have to have in place, from what you're saying.

First, remembering, as you said, that great experiences are about creating emotional moments – not super-slick functionality – because those are the bits we end up remembering. Kind of everything else ends up on the cutting-room floor of life, if it just slides by unnoticed. The bits where we feel something matter.

And, you know, there's ups and downs in that. And one of your big watch-outs at the start there was, you know, we can do a lot to manage the downside of emotion and experiences by making sure we really do a lot to set expectation and just make sure that we remove anxiety and uncertainty.

And I guess that helps create a sense of progress by establishing clarity on the journey and what's involved. It's not easy to feel like you're making progress when you don’t know what the journey looks like. And then looking at how we signal and celebrate progress as people move through an experience – how we do that appropriately.

I thought that was really interesting. You know, not every step needs to be celebrated. It's not all about fireworks and noise and that kind of thing. And it's certainly not about you taking credit or owning the experience. It's somebody's personal experience that you're trying to help celebrate or acknowledge.

And I think, importantly, what you said that reflected what Lindsey said there as well, was – you know, you're not looking to remove every challenge, but more trying to make people feel in control of what's happening. And in fact, challenge is good, right? Like, IKEA doesn't assemble itself. Yeah? There's a reason why the success feels like it's earned.

Lindsey: Yeah, you want people to feel like they've put in a bit of effort – that they can feel proud of what they've done?

Andrew: Yeah.

Dan: Empowered to actually do the thing they've been trying to achieve.

Andrew: Yeah, and I guess a super slick, seamless experience – it's just not going to do that, is it? And reinforcement – you know, the positive feedback there. So if we think about those as some of the basics that we can do that reflect some of those principles you put out there, Lindsey, how do we know how to get things right in terms of how and when we show up? You know – when is the right time for brands to show up?

Lindsey: Context really matters, and so does knowing your audience. So if you're an organisation or a brand who wants to show up, it's really important to know who that person is, and their moments that matter will differ between people. We do see differences between different groups of people – in the progress research study we've launched, we saw that women want to see progress across health and wellbeing and through stress reduction, much more so than men.

So it's really important to know what progress actually means to your audience – or your different audience types – and how to best track it, and how to best celebrate it based on those different audiences. Another consideration that can also differ for different audiences are the moments that matter.

So like you asked, Andrew, when do people want to stop and reflect and take stock of progress? That can differ for different people. Anyone who's familiar with the behavioural science EAST Framework will know that ‘timely’ is an important element of that framework. And so that’s all about showing up at the right time.

As part of the research, we did a whole qualitative element, and people told us some of the key moments that matter and when they want to track their progress or reflect. So we actually know some of these timely moments. An obvious one is when you reach the milestone – once you’ve completed it and you're reflecting back on it. That's a really clear one. But also just scheduled reviews – so six-month markers, one-year markers, different anniversaries.

These are really timely moments to help mark that progress. We've mentioned Strava – it's a classic example, with their annual review at the end of the year, just tracking how much physical movement you've done. Just like Spotify Wrapped, but for running. If you're a B2B organisation, then potentially quarterly reviews would feel like the right milestones as well.

The other moment that we noticed was these quiet moments of reflection. It's after holidays or breaks, when people have had time to sit back and reflect and look back. So also consider showing up after holidays or inactive periods, when people have had a bit of a chance to have some downtime and reflection time.

The other really interesting way to think about when to show up is also not just the moments that matter, but the messengers that matter – because these reflection points can sometimes come from other people. You know, if someone knows that you want to purchase a house and they ask you how your saving’s going, or they know that you're studying and ask how your course is going.

So these moments that matter can actually come from friends and family, from colleagues, from trusted advisers – and again, these will differ depending on your audience. And actually, just this month, we've seen that Spark, which is a telco provider, has launched Spark for Kids, which helps parents track and monitor their children's data usage.

That’s creating this visualisation – they can track how much their kids are progressing online. Or in this case, the lack of online progression is probably what they want to see. Instead, seeing their kids progress with learning, or sports, or family time. They’re providing weekly and monthly overviews, and the parents can then act as the messenger to check in with their kids as well. So it's really important to think about when to show up to help reflect and also inspire further change. That can come through moments in time, but also through messengers that matter as well.

Andrew: Yeah, so definitely for a brand, thinking about where and when to inject themselves – to create a feeling of progress for people, to help stimulate that – there are really key moments that matter. And above all of that, I guess, as we're really fond of saying at TRA, context is everything. You have to understand the audience and the situation around them, and what those moments are.

Lindsey: Yeah – understand what progress means to them, when to best show up for them, and who their messengers are that they're really going to connect with and celebrate with.

Andrew: Yep. So there’s no such thing as a one-size-fits-all here, but there are some general ideas and principles we can think about when we’re trying to understand when we show up – milestone markers, anniversaries, reflection moments, and the kind of messenger-led moments, depending on who those messengers are and how they fit in.

You’re trying to understand what that ecosystem of messengers looks like when we’re planning interventions and how to turn up to help people. And of course, brands specifically – products and services – don’t exist in a vacuum. They play a specific role in our lives tied to their category, and the research tells us that people actually expect more from some categories than others, which was super interesting.

Then – should we talk about that in a bit more detail? People told us that some categories help them to progress more than others, or are kind of set up to do so. How does that translate into some tangible advice for brands?

Dan: The research showed that banks, education providers, superannuation funds in particular – there was a higher expectation. And if you think about those industries, they're not just service providers. They help people navigate some of life’s biggest milestones. Be it financial security, pursuing education, planning for your retirement – that makes them more than just transactional organisations. They're industries that customers turn to when stakes are high and the future is in play.

And I think it’s reasonable to assume – and to see – that the bar is higher for these organisations. The role they play in people’s lives invites greater exposure, and with that, greater scrutiny. And I think, you know, to paraphrase the wise web-slinger – with great exposure comes great expectation, and therefore greater scrutiny on the job that they are doing. So, customers expect more from these organisations.

They expect them to help them progress. They expect experiences with these organisations to be clear and to give them the confidence to actually manage life’s biggest moments.

And I think progress in these categories doesn’t mean pushing people to do more or achieve more. It means creating experiences where people feel safe enough to move forward with confidence. When life feels complex, we expect these brands to simplify. When the stakes are high, we expect them to support, not sell. And I think a couple of good examples are – first of all – CommBank. For those who have used their app, the goal-saving tools within it are really great. They keep things simple. It’s about straightforward savings. It does the hard work for you with those smart prompts, helpful nudges and really clear visual cues. You feel in control – you feel encouraged to take the next step.

Another good example is Khan Academy – an online education provider. The model is very much based on mastery. Students progress through topics when they've demonstrated mastery. It's not just about completion of a module. It’s not just progress for progress’s sake.

The focus is very much on not rushing people through content, but making sure they've really deeply understood the implications of the content. Do they know how to apply it?

So learners are encouraged to go back, relearn and revisit until they fully understand it – without any penalty. And it's just another example of that IKEA effect that Lindsey mentioned. We value what we've worked for, and I think it's a great application in education.

We feel like we’ve understood the content, and we can take more away from that – that feeling of learning it. But I think ultimately for these organisations, helping customers progress isn’t just about getting customers to do more. It’s about helping them feel better about where they are and giving them the confidence to move forward on the path that’s ahead of them.

Andrew: We're saying some brands and categories naturally have a bigger role to play in our quest for progress, simply because they sit so central to the spaces that really matter to our sense of movement through life. But the advice to these players – if we're talking about how to show up in a way that maximises the sense of progress they help people feel – is to focus on creating a sense of psychological safety, kind of, isn’t it?

In a way, you’re talking about words like clarity and confidence. You know – safety to move. Those kinds of ideas.

Dan: I think it's about guiding, not pushing, people through those life stages.

Well – I think that's super interesting. And I wonder if it’s a bit of a mind shift for brand owners in these spaces. You know, often when you think about words like progress, you’re thinking about pushing people to get to their goals faster, harder, bigger.

Those kinds of ideas, rather than the sense of walking with people and making sure they feel comfortable – you know, they feel kind of okay with how they're travelling. And these ideas of feeling safe to act – you know, like the way you help them progress is not by pushing harder, but making them feel safer in the actions that they do take. So that they're willing to take them. Which, I guess, comes back to the fact that the stakes are often high here – because these are central ideas to life. It’s fascinating.

Lindsey: Yeah – more of a cheerleader than a whip-cracker, I guess.

Andrew: Yeah, right. Let’s flip the conversation a bit, shall we? And talk about something a bit less human, but something we humans are all trying to make sense of, I suppose – AI.

Our research found that people are quite uncertain about how companies are going to use AI to help them personally. I mean – they’re confident it’s going to help companies as a whole, but how companies are going to use it to help them? The jury sounded like it was very much out from the data we got.

Dan, how can the principles from CX help brands better demonstrate the value of AI to customers? How would they go about it?

Dan: Yeah, I think the research was really revealing in showing that only one in three people actually think AI will make it easier for them to engage with brands. You know, and when we think about our own experience with AI – especially in the CX realm – I think we often think about AI customer service.

I'm sure we've all got a story – us three – about being burnt by some company that's moved into a digital AI customer service model, and maybe we've had difficulty finding things or felt it was less accessible and less successful overall. I think this kind of early experience has really built quite a lot of sceptics among the public.

We’re seeing AI as almost a bit of a cheat's way out for organisations. It’s a way they’re cutting corners, removing human contact, trying to save costs. Maybe they’re stripping out that sense of reciprocal effort.

The narrative, unfortunately, appears to be largely about efficiency for businesses – faster service, lower costs, higher margins. While that might make sense operationally, it doesn’t always feel good for the customer.

So clearly, the framing of how we talk about AI needs to be changed here – reframed as a tool for empowerment instead of efficiency. We need to flip that narrative.

Brands need to communicate the benefits of AI to customers more meaningfully, because at the moment, it doesn’t necessarily feel clear from a customer perspective what they’re actually getting out of it.

We need to show that there are benefits – the time savings, the new avenues for customers – the ways that we’re actually simplifying their lives. It’s not just a boost for company profits.

And one thing I’d remind businesses is – like we’ve spoken about earlier – emotion matters. If I don’t feel helped, if I don’t feel like I’ve been listened to, if I don’t feel like I’ve been understood – I’m not going to be loyal. I’m not going to remember that experience, and I’m not going to view it in a positive light.

So what I would say to brands is – when you’re thinking about AI, think not just about how you can speed things up or make them more efficient, but how you can open them up for customers.

How can you shift that narrative of AI to be more about empowerment? How can we empower the general public using these tools and ease the barriers to entry for people? Let them feel more inspired in the process.

And I think one good example here is Grammarly. I think a lot of us have used Grammarly at some point – the AI grammar tool. What’s really great, beyond catching spelling mistakes, is the coaching around tone, clarity and often advice on how to reframe for better impact.

It’s about making people feel more capable, more articulate, more professional – as opposed to just blankly rewriting stuff.

At TRA, we talk a lot about CX as the avenue to deliver on your brand promise. So I think it’s a really important lens for businesses to use here.

How should I be using AI to actually keep that promise that I’m setting? If your promise is about empathy and service – just think a little bit about what the benefit is that the customer is getting through implementing that AI solution.

The lesson is – fight the customer’s perception. AI is not just here for the business – it’s here for you. And that’s how we can reframe that narrative.

Andrew: Yeah, it's easy to see where the scepticism comes from around AI when you draw parallels to, you know, the general rollout of digital CX channels over the last kind of decade or so. A lot was promised – but ultimately, from an experience point of view, not much was delivered. Buying is a lot easier, but service is often a lot harder than it was.

Lindsey: Yeah, feeling like you're having a one-way chat with the chatbot.

Andrew: Yeah, a lot less rewarding as a result. But I think what's really interesting – and what Dan was saying – is there really is an opportunity for brands, particularly those who, given where we are right now, move first and move well, to build a narrative around how AI can enrich a person's sense of progress and momentum in life.

I particularly love that idea, Dan, of “opening up” rather than “speeding up” – as a real shorthand for the potential of AI to do something pretty spectacular. That idea of taking down barriers to participation and mastery, and creating more opportunity for learning. Your examples from the world of design – I think that's fascinating.

I remember going to a conference a year or two ago – Roblox, the game platform. They had the Chief Scientist from Roblox giving a demonstration of a kid coding a game by voice, using AI to do all the work behind it. I thought that was a fascinating idea of what “opening up” looks like. You don’t need five years of coding skills to create a game. You just need some really great ideas.

What's your perspective, Lindsey? How can brands better shift towards progress empowered by AI?

Lindsey: Yeah, it's a great question – and I love that example you gave. We've seen organisations use AI really well to help achieve some of the big concepts we've been talking about today. Not just tracking progress, but also – as you said – helping people reach their goals, making it easier, and supporting them emotionally too. Like Daniel mentioned right at the start: it's about tapping into emotion and helping people feel really good about the progress they’re making.

Daniel talked about CommBank, but Up Bank is another great example. They help people feel great about their savings – and they’re using AI alongside other techniques. You build a pyramid of your savings, it’s got sound effects, haptics – so it really taps into emotional rewards and positive feedback loops. One user actually said it was “so deeply satisfying”.

You could hear how emotive she was in that response. Again, it’s about using AI to support people and help them feel good.

Daniel mentioned that some of the big players in this space – like savings and education – are naturally aligned to people’s sense of progress. But there are examples from other categories, even in areas that might not seem like they’re about progress, that show any organisation can tap into these principles.

Take cybersecurity. It’s not an area you’d expect people to want to “progress” in – but the same principles still apply. A password manager provider, for example, uses a dashboard called Watchtower. It uses AI to scan passwords for weaknesses, alerts users to risks, and as people update their credentials, their security score improves. So AI is turning digital safety into a visible form of progress – reinforcing better habits and helping people feel more in control of something that’s usually overlooked.

Another way AI is helping drive progress is through the use of motivational prompts. You and I were talking about showing up at the right time with the right messenger – but it’s also about using the right kind of motivational message, or it can fall flat.

There’s a behavioural scientist called Amy Bucher who works for Lirio, a healthcare provider. They’ve been using AI to deliver different motivational messages to help people stick to their healthcare plans – choosing the right message, for the right person, at the right moment.

And I guess anyone who’s used Duolingo knows about the different characters. They’ve got the friendly bear – but for me, it’s the goth girl Lily. The reverse psychology: “Practice or don’t. I don’t care.” Gets me every time.

You can see how AI can deploy different motivational techniques that resonate with different people. So it’s not just about helping track or show progress. It’s about showing up with the right message, from the right messenger, at the right time.

And if we can understand our audience really well, we can show up in the right place, at the right moment, with the right message – and that’s how we’ll see real behaviour change gains.

Andrew: Yeah, I love that. The idea of AI helping with behaviour adoption – not just tracking, but improving the efficacyof these tools by applying them in a smarter, more tailored way through individual understanding.

Lindsey: And, as Dan said – to support people, not just speed everything up.

Andrew: Yes, exactly – to open up. As we said, we’ve covered a lot of interesting ground today, looking through the lenses of behavioural science and experience design to understand how we can practically show up as brands to help people on their journey of progress.

I’ll try to wrap up some of the key points we made today.

First, we said progress feels better when it’s earned. Our job isn’t to remove all the challenges from an experience – it’s to make people feel their effort has resulted in some forward motion.

Then, when we think about how we show up – context is everything. Understanding the audience. Understanding the situation. Understanding those key moments that matter – and that they’ll be different. It’s important we show up in a timely way to help celebrate progress and encourage people to keep going.

And we said progress isn’t just functional – it’s emotional. We’re trying to create experiences that amplify the emotion of progress. It’s not all about the pace to goal achievement – but about encouragement, mastery, and making people feel good about where they are and how they’re moving.

That’s where AI can really add value – not just speeding up, but opening out. Empowerment over efficiency.

If we can tailor our experiences to include elements of all of this, then we start to play a really effective role in helping people build a strong narrative of progress. And ultimately – that makes us feel good.

I’d like to once again thank Lindsey and Dan for coming in today. Thank you both – it’s been a really interesting chat.

Dan: Thanks for having us.

Lindsey: Thanks, Andrew.

Andrew: And thanks for listening to FRAME – the podcast by TRA, dedicated to the art of knowing people. TRA is an insights agency. By layering perspectives from the science of human understanding, we see things others don’t – the uncommon truths.

To download our full report on progress, visit theresearchagency.com/progress.

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